The title compounds were prepared and their basicities measured. In both systems the major part of the molecule is held planar, while an aryl group is free to rotate. This may interact with the positive charge but steric hindrance to the ortho hydrogens may be expected to oppose planarity. In these systems no evidence was found for a reduction of the normal σ+ value due to failure to achieve planarity. A formula is presented which gives the approximate degree of resemblance (α) of the transition state to the products and, in the case of the ionization of triarylmethanols, α is found to be linear with pKR+. It is suggested that this could resolve the apparent contradiction between the Hammett equation and the Hammond postulate.